Guess what, all of us are probably over our GVWR and our GAWR with the truck cam

[Biewers on the go]

I am so frustrated, when I called interested in buying one of these Livin Lite "ultra light" campers, I told my dealership what kind of truck I had, bed length etc. F-250 XL, Diesel, 4x4, extended cab.  I was never ONCE told or asked for my GVWR nor GAWR to determine IF my truck should be able to haul anything this heavy.  Well, I now have a camper that weighs 3,027 lbs UNLOADED, and a truck with a GVWR beyond it's own weight of only 2,325 pounds!!! 

Since legally the GVWR can't be raised by modifying the truck suspension, and if anything happens when I am loaded with the pickup camper on my truck, since I will be over the GVWR, my insurance doesn't have to cover me.  LOVELY, I get it on the insurance end, but why don't ALL Truck Campers say you MUST have at least a 1 ton truck, and it must have a GVWR that is above the weight of the truck camper you are buying???

I know, they have a little disclaimer in the Livin Lite book at the end of the section on how much your vehicle can carry etc. that it is the owners responsibility to only haul what is appropriate for their tow vehicle.  LOVELY, now I am screwed and have to try to find a truck that CAN carry my brand new camper.  Meaning, I can't really use my camper now until I have sold my truck and gotten one that is correct.  Of course they don't list this information on the for sale web sites either, I have to call and ask. 

I think that this policy and practice on the side of the dealerships is absolutely appalling.  I am furious as a newly widowed person trying to be able to maintain some of my departed husband and I's former hobbies like camping.  This makes me so angry I am seeing red!

So, I live in central NYS currently, and if anyone knows of trucks that can fit and carry the 3,027 plus options of Air conditioner, ladder and roof rack and larger refrig, so probably closer to 3,500 pound camper, the 2017 model 8.4S in their truck bed (mine just fits it and it is a 6.8 foot bed, gas engine, and not 4x4 or diesel, as those weigh more and use up more of the GVWR because of that, and in really good shape, towing package and electric windows and A/C preferred, please let me know.  It do need the extended  cab though since I would like to take my grandchildren on occasion.  Thanks, and beware of this folks. 

Rayne

[DavidM]

I understand your frustration. It is a fact of RV sales that virtually no RV salesperson is straightup about towing or in your case payload capacity. Caveat emptor. The only way to protect yourself is to read, read and read some more about towing and payload issues with an RV.

So, what to do? First accurately weigh your camper with all normal gear and minimal fluids. It won't be easy to do. You will have to take your rig to a scale, come home and remove the rig and go back and weigh again. As you note, you will probably be close to 3,500 lbs.

Then figure what payload you will have excluding the camper: fuel, driver, passenger and any gear stored in the pickup. Probably in the neighborhood of 500 lbs.

So, you are going to need a pickup with a GVWR equal to the unloaded curb weight plus 4,000 lbs. That is a big pickup, maybe even an F350 or similar. Then you need to look at axle loadings and you may also need a dually because most of the 3,500 lb camper weight will be on the rear wheels.

And even though as you note, a diesel uses up more of the pickup's GVWR, I wouldn't rule out a diesel unless you don't put on many miles traveling with your camper.

It won't be an easy problem to solve, without $$$$.

David

[gerry]

It is a shame this happened to you. The fact that you care and are going to take steps to correct it restores my faith in humanity. You don't have to look far to see obviously overloaded truck campers on the road. Like you said, many of those were probably duped into the purchase by the dealer but many were not and couldn't care less. Those are the ones I fear.

Ultimately it is the buyer's responsibility to know the details of a safe rig versus an unsafe one. I do have a hard time believing there is no dealer responsibility especially if they corresponded with you in writing stating your truck is sufficiently safe and then proceeded to physically mount the camper to your truck without a waiver of some sort.

I think you may have a case. An attorney may be in your best interest here, unfortunately. Not an attorney here so take this for what it's worth.

[DavidM]

Remember, only the tongue weight gets added as cargo when determining if you've exceeded your GVWR. Figure 600 pounds tongue weight. You are fine with an F250.

The OP has a truck camper.

David

[djsamuel]

Remember, only the tongue weight gets added as cargo when determining if you've exceeded your GVWR. Figure 600 pounds tongue weight. You are fine with an F250.

The OP has a truck camper.

David

Oh geez! I totally read over that. My apologies!

[Biewers on the go]

You can actually delete your own replies and posts if you really want to DavidM.  LOL.

I have decided to upgrade my truck then see if it can handle the load of the camper.  If it can, I will then be looking into trying to upgrade the data on the truck to reflect a new GVWR if at all possible.  If it doesn't work, THEN I go buy a different truck that is a 1 ton, and hoping I don't have to go to a dually. 

Regarding the salesman, I think I told him what I had for a truck, and told him my deceased husband had already said that our truck would carry it no problem.  In retrospect, I think my poor husband only assumed it would since it could tow nearly ANYTHING.  Not the same thing as we now know.  We had a 1 ton Ford, w/o extended or crew cab years and years ago, it held our then camper that was all wooden cupboards, had the sitdown shower in the backend too, and we towed our aluminum 17 foot boat full of gear along with it every year on vacation without an issue.  But, that was before they changed the options on trucks to such an extent that the GVWR was drastically reduced from the old days too.  So, I am somewhat to blame.  But, I too think their should be responsibility by the dealership since they did acutally load it, not me, the day I brought it home. 

Anyone know how to get the GVWR re-evaluated on a truck? 
Rayne

[DocktorJJ]

Trailer Life Magazine publishes an annual TOWING GUIDE.  With our first travel trailer we did the same thing but we knew or trailer was to heavy for our truck.  So we bought another truck asap.  As it was said not a simple fix without $$$$$$.

As for salesmen they sell. Trust them not - Yoda said!

[Biewers on the go]

Well, even modified, my camper is still too heavy for my truck.  So, now I have been looking into getting a beefier truck, but I am running into one HUGE major problem.  My camper is designed for a short 6.5' box and not a long box.  I have been trying to find anyone making a dually with the in between box size I need and not a long box but so far no luck.  Even without the Dually but say a 3500 by anyone and I haven't had any luck. 

Anyone know of any that were made and what years they were etc.?  I would appreciate any and all suggestions.  I cannot afford a new truck, and I would get taken to the cleaners if I sold my camper.  Wish Livin Lite would take it back and help me get fitted with one of their others that are actually lighter, and bigger than mine and can use a long bed.  That would be so awesome, I could maybe just pay the difference?  I am so frustrated!!! 

Help?
Rayne

[DavidM]

I don't usually suggest this, but your situation may benefit from talking to an attorney. There is a case to be made that the dealer defrauded you by recommending a camper that didn't fit your truck and was dangerous as well.

I wouldn't suggest legal action, the cost outweighs the potential benefits. But if you consult with an attorney and they write a threatening letter to the dealer, that might soften up the dealer so that they would work with you to take back the camper and sell you one more appropriate for your use.

But have you asked the dealer to do this yourself. It makes sense and it wouldn't cost the dealer too much. It would only cost him the used value vs new and that might not be much unless what he sold to you is also unusable for others.

So give it a try and if he says no, then talk to an attorney.

David

[Biewers on the go]

I may just do that David, thanks.
Rayne

[DocktorJJ]

Biewers on the go , Just thought of another FREE angle - Contact Trailer Life Magazine, they do a monthly section called RV Resolutions.   They act as a referee and contact usually  manufactures about trailer issues, and you certainly have an issue .  Then approach the lawyer if need be. Trailer Life = FREE!!

[gerry]

Regarding the salesman, I think I told him what I had for a truck, and told him my deceased husband had already said that our truck would carry it no problem. 

This has very little impact on legality. Just imagine if mechanics rigged cars to be unsafe just because their owners said it was OK. I don't think that would fly to well on the interstates if there were a problem caused by it. Until unscrupulous dealers get dragged through the muddy muddy muck of lawsuits they are unlikely to change their ways.

Of course this all assumes you did not sign a waiver in one form or another.

But, hey, a new truck sounds good too.

[Biewers on the go]

Interesting perspective, but all of the paperwork has disclaimers throughout from the dealerships.  I thought it interesting that Livin Lite actually said they were not truck experts, only campers though when I contacted them.  One would think that they would have at least one truck expert on staff to make sure they don't design something that no truck made is legally supposed to carry wouldn't you all? 

Well, they are not the issue, the dealership is if it is anyone.  I am still undecided on how to deal with this all just yet myself.  I have been searching for a truck all over the south for the past week, and dually's that have the "standard 6.5 box" are a rare beast indeed.  I have even had salesman tell me no such thing exists.  I then marched them into their managers to educate them so now they know! 

Other problem with the standard box length dually is that the cab they put on the only ones made with the standard box is friggin huge, and so that takes back some of the payload I would have otherwise had.  Sure would be nice if I could afford new, but not realistic.  Even then I would have to wait over 2 months for it to come in.  There would go my summer in NY state at least.  Ha ha.

Thanks for all the advice.
Rayne

[gerry]

One question. In what state did you purchase this truck camper in?

[Biewers on the go]

I purchased it through the Camp Lite Dealer in Central NY.  Why?